Trabian Shorters is a leading social entrepreneur and developer of the award-winning cognitive framework Asset-Framing®. Adopted by influential philanthropic, journalism, and social impact networks worldwide, Asset-Framing enhances social impact, fundraising, and equity-driven systems change. As founder of BMe Community, ranked #1 by The Bridgespan Group for its approach to high-impact leadership retreats and programs, Trabian leads a national movement to define Black people (and all people) by their aspirations and contributions while securing their fundamental freedoms to Live, Own, Vote, and Excel.

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Trabian Shorters:

So, now let’s talk about someone who aspires to have a good life and is currently a student in a school that has been systematically underfunded, in a neighborhood that is over-policed and under-resourced. So, now you have this aspiring person in an environment that is obstructing their worthy aspiration. Yes, we need to give the students some support and skills, but probably the smartest way to get the best advantage is to invest in that community. Fix the systemic obstacles, and you’re going to help more kids than if you try it the other way.

Leon T. Andrews, Jr.:

Welcome to The Measure. I’m your host, Leon Andrews, president and CEO of Equal Measure. On The Measure, we talk with leaders and practitioners about centering racial equity and transforming systems. Today, we are honored to be joined by Trabian Shorters, a social entrepreneur whose work has fundamentally reshaped how many of us think about people, power, and possibility. Trabian is the founder of BMe Community and the creator of Asset-Framing, a cognitive framework that challenges deficit-based narratives and centers the strengths, agency, and contributions of communities that are too often defined by what they lack. I am really looking forward to this conversation. Welcome, Trabian.

Trabian Shorters:

Hey, it’s my pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me.

Leon T. Andrews, Jr.:

I’d love for you to share with our audience a little bit more about your background. Since we know in the work we do at Equal Measure, context matters in how we show up in the world. It’s a question I ask all my guests and would love for you to share, for you and your journey, how do you think about place, context, and history and how that’s influenced who you are and the work you do today?

Trabian Shorters:

Yeah, I love that. Thanks. That’s a great opening. I was born in a factory town called Pontiac, Michigan. Born in the late ’60s. Being in a factory town, the labor movement and the racial movement and the social cultural awareness movement and the women’s movement, they all coincided when I was coming of age. When I think about my childhood, I’m in a factory town as stagflation is hitting. So, factories are closing, people are losing their jobs. So, what I learned amidst all that confusion and fear, as crime and violence and all those things were escalating and people’s ability to see the future was declining, what I learned was when there was a Democratic governor in office, Pontiac sucked. But when there was a Republican governor in office, Pontiac sucked. My brothers, we were growing up saying, “Well, we can either vote for this rich white guy or we can vote for that white rich guy.” These distinctions that everybody seemed so self-righteous about as a regular American, I just couldn’t see. So, I definitely grew up aware of the contradictions between perception and reality.

And then, maybe the last thing I would say contextually is, I was a big tech nerd growing up. And, so, I got very much into understanding how systems work, and in this case, computer systems. But the guy who taught me how to hack when I was a kid was very clear that in order to be a really good hacker, you have to understand a system well enough to get it to do something it wasn’t designed to do. That’s hacking. And I’ve been hacking ever since. And I’ve been north of 40 years at this, and understanding systems well enough to get them to do things that weren’t designed to do is what I do these days.

Leon T. Andrews, Jr.:

Yeah. I want to continue where you’re going here because you started the BMe community while you were working at the Knight Foundation. And I’d love for you to share or if you can talk more about the narratives you were trying to shift then, particularly around Black men and boys.

Trabian Shorters:

Yeah. So, honestly, I think the biggest point for those of your audience who are listening to this is, narratives matter more than the facts for one simple reason. Your narratives tell you which facts to credit and which facts to discard. So, your perception of reality is fundamentally shaped by which narratives you accept to be true or which narratives you consider. And literally what is possible gets multiplied when you shift from a narrative that starts with fear, threat, and challenge to shifting to a narrative that begins with aspirations, contributions, and possibilities. Where you start makes a difference in how high you can climb. The angle that you point your trajectory at makes a huge difference in how high you can go.

And, so, in context of the John S. and James L. Knight Foundation, I was vice president of the John S. and James L. Knight Foundation when Alberto Ibargüen said to our executive team that we need to look at strategies for getting Black men to be even more strongly engaged in their communities. And, so, then we went out on the ground and interviewed 2,000-plus Black men in Philadelphia and Detroit, and 2,000 Black men told us what they do to be engaged in the community. 100% was already positively engaged in their community. 19 years old to 84 years old, we couldn’t find a brother that wasn’t giving back in some way, which that’s where BMe all began because it was like, well, our baseline assumption that Black men’s lower literacy rate, lower employment rate, lower all this negative data that we started our perspective with told us that Black men had a problem being engaged.

Then you talk to thousands of Black men, and 100% tells you how they’re engaged in giving back. So, now we got to square this circle because the prevailing narrative obviously had its proofs, but then this counter narrative, which I consider to be a reality-based narrative, said that the stuff you hear in this negative might be true, but 100% of this positive frame is also true. So, why are we only telling the negative story? Why are we making people perceive that most Black men X, Y, and Z, when most Black men, the counter is true?

Leon T. Andrews, Jr.:

And I’m sure some of our listeners have heard of Asset-Framing or have attended probably your trainings or heard you speak. But for those who may not be as familiar, could you ground us a little bit? How would you describe Asset-Framing?

Trabian Shorters:

Asset-Framing is literally shifting from that old fixer narrative of the world is broken and we exist to fix broken systems. Shifting from that tired, denigrating, old narrative to the one that says, “All people aspire, all people contribute. And we all do better when we help each other to realize our highest aspirations and be rewarded for our greatest contributions.” If we’re all committed to that, then we’ll pick up the broken stuff along the way, we’ll achieve something much higher than just fixing what’s broken. We will actually build something much better. So, that’s the fundamental.

One more introduction to Asset-Framing that I like to do is from how we practice it. So, the practice of Asset-Framing actually pays attention to cognitive psychology, how our brains actually work. And it turns out that deficit framing essentially uses fear triggers to engage you. It says, “If we don’t do this, then horrible things happen.” So, deficit frames literally trigger your sense of fear, and then we take action to remediate the danger. When your brain switches into defense mode, it will take actions to be safe. And, so, that’s what we’ve been using. We’ve been trying to browbeat people into a higher consciousness. We’ve tried to scare them into a higher way of thinking, right? And it turns out that doesn’t really work.

Asset-Framing instead says, “If I can identify Leon’s aspirations and his contributions, and it turns out that what he aspires to is similar to what I aspire to. His contributions are similar to my contributions. Well, what are the things that are limiting his ability to achieve his aspirations? Oh, his community has been systematically disinvested in. Well, that doesn’t seem right. That doesn’t seem fair. His schools don’t have the resources they need to educate him, but he’s willing to learn. We know that he aspires. He’s a student. So, why don’t we just give aspiring people the basic fair resources that they need to continue to pursue their aspirations?” That’s sort of the fundamental logic of Asset-Framing. And what we found is a few things happen when you recognize that people actually aspire and contribute.

Number one, it becomes much harder to stereotype and stigmatize them as the sole reason for their setback.

Number two, if you recognize these things, then the question of what is preventing them from achieving success becomes easier to ask. If they’re all aspiring, why can’t they get there? The idea that there might be some systemic barrier becomes intuitive. If 40 million people living in poverty, are they each individually all making bad decisions? Or is there something structural that can keep 40 million people in check when they want better futures for their families? It becomes just a rational question. And once you get to that rational question of, oh, there’s probably some systemic barrier, then the data shows the public becomes more willing to address the systemic barrier. They think it’s unfair that aspiring people who are willing to do the work and they make contributions, but they still can’t get ahead. Well, if they’re being held back, that’s unfair. So, let’s fix the obstacle.

Conversely, when you say that same group, the deficit frame, when you say that same group is just less capable, that men, they’re just not as capable. They have other problems. The problem is them. When you deficit-frame it, then people want to fix them. They don’t want to fix the systemic barrier that is blocking these aspiring people because that’s not the story you told. And then you continue in that pattern, and you start to believe it after a while because it’s all you’ve ever said.

And then you get on the ground and you talk to real people and they all say, “Yeah, we knew that the brothers contributed. We knew that that’s the thing that y’all got caught up in. That’s not something we believe because we know. I know what my uncle is like. I know what my cousins are like. I know what my aunties are like. I know what’s going on, but y’all tell a story about us as if we are somehow the bane of American existence and we don’t believe it. And, by the way, we don’t trust you anymore because your story about us is one of fear and negation. And then you get surprised that when we self-organize, we don’t even consider you an ally. Why are you surprised?” Nobody is your charity case. And the sooner we figure that out, the sooner we come together and build a country that we all want, I think.

Leon T. Andrews, Jr.:

I’m curious what you would see as the most common way organizations that think they’re asset-based, but actually aren’t.

Trabian Shorters:

The most common error that people think when they’re being asset-framed is they say, “Okay. I’m going to look at this at-risk, low-income student, but I’m not going to use those words.” Give me a nicer way to say terrible things. They think Asset-Framing is about spin. So, they say, “I don’t want to call them at-risk. Give me another word that means at-risk, but it’s asset-framed.” So, that’s just a misunderstanding. Asset-Framing is not about word choice at all. It’s not about what do you say about a group. It’s how do you think about that group? Remember, everything we do starts with cognitive psych. How do you think of them? It is starting at a different point in their story. Don’t start with their challenge. Start with their aspiration. Start with their contribution. And now let’s do the narrative.

So, I often tell people most of the time, a good 90% of the time, a word that you can substitute for “at-risk youth,” most of the time the word you can substitute is “student.” Let’s talk about a student, somebody who goes to school. What does that student aspire to? They want to graduate, they want to grow up, they want to make more money, whatever, but that’s their aspiration. So, now let’s talk about someone who aspires to have a good life and is currently a student in a school that has been systematically underfunded in a neighborhood that is over-policed and under-resourced. So, now you have this aspiring person in an environment that is obstructing their worthy aspiration. Yes, we need to give the students some support and skills, but probably the smartest way to get the best advantage is to invest in that community. Fix the systemic obstacles, and you’re going to help more kids than if you try it the other way.

Leon T. Andrews, Jr.:

Yeah, I appreciate that. And you’ve been doing this now, is it fair, the Asset-Framing work at least a decade, if not more.

Trabian Shorters:

Yeah, since 2013. Yeah.

Leon T. Andrews, Jr.:

So, a little over a decade. And what makes for you Asset-Framing just as important now, 13, now, years later, and when you first introduced the concept?

Trabian Shorters:

Yeah, it’s actually extraordinarily important now. And again, the way to think about it is we grew up on a narrative of deficit framing to get action. That narrative has run its course. We’re at a point now where you’re getting negative returns for that narrative. It has made it possible for an authoritarian regime to come into power because the narrative that everything is broken and nothing works, it’s been so pervasive that people are like, “Okay, well, then throw it out.” You see what I’m saying? It is a losing strategy even when you win. So, let’s talk about the next narrative.

Let me give you a couple of examples. In the state of Michigan, there was a historically Black college named Pensole Lewis College. It shut down for funding reasons or whatever. A former Nike executive bought the rights to the school and reopened it as an international design academy. It is the only HBCU that is a design academy. But in the state of Michigan, you need policy to be able to open. You need laws to be passed to be able to open this school. Democrats, Republicans, and independents voted in favor of doing this in this era. And what I’m trying to point out, and the campaign to do so, the person who led it, his name is Dr. Dwayne Edwards, used an asset-frame campaign the whole way through, has always asset-framed his appeals and his strategies and his partnerships. And, so, he gets left, right, and independent to go in on a HBCU and proudly so.

Seven years ago, I think it was, Desmond Meade in the state of Florida led a campaign to restore voting rights to folks who have been incarcerated. 1.4 million people regained their voting rights in the state of Florida. Five million Democrats, independents, and Republicans all voted in favor of this policy because of the way that Desmond framed the question and who was at the center of it. He says, “Do you know anybody in your family who has made a mistake and deserves another chance? Or do you know anyone who deserves a second chance?” The answer is always yes. And his answer is, “That’s who I fight for. I fight for people who are aspiring, contributing, and don’t want to be limited by some mistake they made or some system that was set up against them. I want people who are willing to do the work to have the chance.”

Michigan is sort of a purple state. Florida is a red state, in case you didn’t know. Both of them voted in favor of extending rights and got tri-partisan support. And, so, when you think about red, blue, and purple states, asset-framed appeals appeal across the parties, and you’re still benefiting the same groups that these deficit-framed appeals would go after. In Florida, what Desmond accomplished had been fought for for 150 years to no success. What Dwayne did in Michigan had never been done, period, ever. That versus what we grew up doing is a no-brainer.

Leon T. Andrews, Jr.:

Yeah, Trabian, and I appreciate that. And I’d love for you to reflect as we’ve been talking a lot about this Asset-Framing, where you are seeing Asset-Framing showing up as you think about the future and the work and what gives you hope? Where are you seeing it showing up in ways that’s surprising and encouraging to you? And what gives you confidence that this narrative change, this next narrative, can actually shift systems, not just the stories, not just stories.

Trabian Shorters:

So, I have a ton of hope because those who recognize that the era of fixing is over? You can’t fix this stuff fast enough for the changes that are happening. So, spinning all your wheels on how to fix it and make the system just a little bit better. If you can accept that that era is over, then you can shift it to a builder mode, which attracts more support across all the aisles, has greater impact, and lets us build the future we want instead of trying to guess about what it might be. And the way we sustain our hope is to stop painting all the corners of our mind with brokenness, identify our aspirations, identify our contributions, find those who share them regardless of if they are traditional allies, and work with them to build the future that we all want.

Leon T. Andrews, Jr.:

Trabian, thank you for this conversation, for the clarity and conviction you bring to this work. As we’ve been talking, one line from Toni Morrison feels especially fitting here. She once said, “The function of freedom is to free someone else.”

Trabian Shorters:

I love that.

Leon T. Andrews, Jr.:

And your work reminds us that changing narratives is not just about language, it’s about freedom. It’s about who gets to be fully seen, measured fairly, treated with dignity. So, just thank you for helping us think more clearly about the stories we tell and the systems those stories sustain.

And let me just say thanks to our listening audience. You can learn more about Equal Measure and its work by visiting equalmeasure.org. And be sure to subscribe to The Measure Podcast. Until next time.